Western Women's Culture of Meanness

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Updated August 23:

In the comments section, Lafayette Sennacherib says, possibly jokingly:

I'll go along with feminism this far: it's ok for women to bring in a wage, as long as they still rear the kids, clean the place, cook, sew, provide regular sex, are totally faithful unless it's with another woman and we can watch/share, and don't mind their men having a bit on the side. Fair's fair! We owe them that much!

I don't know if he's joking or not, but I won't even go that far. I decided to ask Sexmaniacman his opinion of LS' post, and here is what he said:

Bob, first of all, thanks so much for inviting me over so I can write about this. My complaint, Bob, is that feminism has cultivated a culture of meanness, at least here in the US. I would say that American women have cultivated a culture of meanness, but I think they reason they have is feminism. Feminism makes women pissed off at us men. Period. Full stop.

As a het guy who chooses to deal with women as more than platonic friends, I don't dig being hated on. It sucks, and it feels deflating to my cock.

I've gotten to the point now where I can have sex even with a woman who completely hates me and is making that clear as we are engaging in the sex act, but it wasn't always that way. Angry, bitchy, emasculating women make men impotent. Either physically, psychologically, or spiritually.

I figure even non-feminist women are bitchy enough sometimes. Add feminism into the stew and now they are way bitchier even than they are normally. Fuck that. I hate bitchy women. Nothing worse.

One thing that I have noticed is that a lot of wimpy, leftwing, pro-feminist men love bitchy women. They sit back and cheer them on.

And these bitchy feminists are attracted to wimpy pro-feminist guys, but the truth is that these guys' wimpiness drives the feminists insane, because even though they are feminists who say they hate macho men and machismo, they are still women, and most women hate wimpy guys and long for a macho man to reduce them to meek, wimpering Southern belles.

That's why feminism doesn't work in practice.

It creates what we've got in Northern California. The stereotypical Northern California male: so wimpy and/or feminized that a lot of people will think the guy is gay. And it concurrently creates the Northern California female: so butch and/or masculinized that a lot of people will think she's a dyke.

These two things attract each other. That's why you will find a fair number of these wimpy-type guys messing around with guys, and you will find quite a few of these dykey women either messing with women or just going full gay either part of full-time.

Macho guys create feminine female counterparts and vice versa. Wimpy guys create bitches at best and vice versa and create macho dykey women at worst and vice versa. At both extremes, normally het people will start moving into homosexuality and bisexuality.

This is another thing I have against feminism: it's full of lesbians. Now, I have nothing against lesbians and gay men being members of gay rights organizations. But why should feminism, objectively merely pro-women's rights, be full of a dykes? Reason is that feminism creates lesbians, and for some weird reason, lesbians love feminism.

Have you ever noticed that the women who scream most about rape are lesbians, probably really butch, dykey, homely and living in some gay community, IOW, just about the least likely women to get raped!

The women most likely to get raped are het women, women who are fully involved with men and men's lives, and who have men in their lives. Straight men, not gay men. Often they are raped by their boyfriends, husbands, dates or just guys they know.

I go to a feminist site and typically it's swarming with lesbians. My first reaction is why? I went to a feminist site, not a gay rights site. Second reaction is turnoff. I'm here to see what straight women think, not lesbians.

Final thought is even more disturbing. A lot of radical feminists and feminist separatists openly hate men. They're into misandry. Yep, the very women screaming most about misogyny are often misandrists themselves. It's it's bad for the goose, it's bad for the gander.

As feminism has cultivated misandry (something many feminists now admit), it's turned lots of feminists into a bunch of lesbians. A family friend was one of the founding members of NOW, and I was a member myself for years. She eventually quit going to the meetings because the feminist women wouldn't stop hitting on her and propositioning her. Even back then, the movement was swarming with lesbians.

I'm perfectly willing to help raise the kids, clean the house and cook the food, but I am sorry that I cannot sew. I'd be glad to learn if it was easy. I'm not sure I even mind if women cheat. I never used to mind and often had open relationships.

I was raised in the androgynous 1970's. In part I was never comfortable with the macho man thing, so I rejected it because it just wasn't me, and though I was always into masculinity deep down inside, I was also influenced by feminism wanting to make us into "New Men" - sensitive, vulnerable, all that.

I turned into a straight Mick Jagger - Steve Tyler - New York Dolls androgynous surfer - rocker - punk rocker - doper - dope dealer - compulsive womanizer.

What did I get for this? Guys tried to beat me up for "being a fag". I even got beat over the fucking head with a baseball bat once. Nicer people were continuously suggesting that I was gay or bi, much to my consternation. Usually it was guys saying I was gay. Females, being more intelligent, usually thought I was bi, because gay men have no interest in women.

I was attacked by my very own girlfriends, heads full of feminism, for being gay, bi, wimpy or just not much a man. Screw this. What did I get out of going along with this feminist "New Man" shit? Not a damn thing. Hell with it. I'm gonna be a macho pig, and the feminists can fuck off if they don't like it.

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Cavewomen and Wormboys

A fellow named Zsidozas comments on the Race, Gender and Masculinity/Femininity post. My comments follow:

Zsidozas comments: A personal story - as a White American male I've encountered much hostility from White females because I am not an effete and feminized White American male like so many of the others are these days. I am more aggressive, dominant, and masculine than the majority of White males for sure, but I try to temper this by my strong orientation toward reason, rationality, and learning.

So yeah, I've encountered problems with White women because many view me as an overly aggressive, pushy, and angry asshole / jerk / brute / prick / Viking / Neanderthal, of which I am not at all, but they only view me that way because I am quite a bit more masculine than most White men (who I agree are, on the whole, far too wimpy and resigned for their own good).

I am not a bodybuilder or football player or anything like that, so it's not like I am afflicted by the 'macho male complex' that men like that suffer from.

So I've noticed that many White women think of me as something a bit unnatural or strange and view me with some contempt and suspicion because I am not easily dominated and controlled like the rest of White men.

In fact, I'll argue and bicker with women (of whatever ethnicity) until we are all blue in the face if I believe something strongly as I'm not afraid to back down like so many modern men are -- and I usually win those arguments.

And when I do win those arguments, believe it or not I've had women get violent with me either playfully or for real, like they are trying to get back at me physically for 'beating them' mentally and emotionally in an argument when they are just so used to lording over modern men.

It seems as if many White women, if they date or marry White men as most do, actually sort-of want or prefer a push-over who they can easily control, manipulate, and dominate in many ways (though they still want the man to bring them home some money, of course).

I think this is a rather recent development and a major reason why gender relations are so screwed up in the modern Western White world, particularly in America.

A quick story: I was at a party with my girlfriend the other night that was mostly populated by a bunch of drunken lesbians and overly masculine (but straight) White females, along with their feminized male lackeys. And one of them, in a drunken and pilled-up stupor actually said to me and me girlfriend as we were talking to her [paraphrasing]: "I love to emasculate men. I just like it. It's fun. I do it all the time at work."

And she said it sort-of at me and my girlfriend, like almost a veiled insult toward me or something. I continued to laugh with her and joked around and such, but still I think it was like a veiled insult toward me because she recognized in me a man who refused to be emasculated and feminized like so many modern men.

So I laughed and joked (but was secretly disgusted toward her that she would actually take pleasure in mentally emasculating men and fucking with their egos).

Lame story, but I think it illustrates a decent point about the attitude of most modern White women.

Also, you didn't mention Semitic peoples here like Jews and Arabs. But just a thought: Jewish males are certainly very effeminate (as effeminate as many Asian men, often more), and Jewish females very masculine (maybe even as masculine as Black women).

Ditto with Arabs -- and maybe this is why Arab men are so severe toward their women, like they want to keep them in check or something? Most Jewish and Arab females have, I've noticed, many masculine physical traits like deep/husky voices and hairy bodies, while many Jewish/Arab men have many feminine traits like higher pitched voices and moodiness/high emotionality.

Many men in Arab countries also engage in some behaviors that are considered effeminate or even gayish here in The West like holding hands as they walk together and kissing each other a lot, but they don't think anything of it over there.

However, there is still something that is just intrinsically aggressive about both Jews and Arabs that I can't pin down yet, though I'm looking for reasons -- maybe it's their rather fanatical ethnocentrism? So, if possible, I'd like your thoughts on Semitics (however brief) as well if you don't mind.

Ok, first of all, I do not understand why women would hate an overly aggressive or masculine man, even in the feminized US. But I won't deny you the reality of your experiences. Around here, most of the White guys are pretty machoed out.

Now if you go over to San Francisco, it is a totally different story. The Northern California male is said to be so feminized that many people think that they are gay. Convsersely, the women are often said to be quite masculinized. I never heard this too much when I was in Southern California.

I do not know why this is, but for instance, my brother knows this older guy was paints his toenails like a woman. I heard that and freaked out. I said, "Is he gay?!" Because I think it sucks for a guy to paint his toenails. My brother answered, "No, he is just a Northern California male."

There are some others like that, including a guy well-known to both of us. I will note: "Sometime he acts like a total fag! What the Hell is the matter with him anyway?!" And then I will imitate his ridiculously faggy behavior. My brother responds that this guy is a Northern California male.

Now this guy hooked up with and later lived with a woman for a while who was quite masculine, and I'm not sure what kind of a relationship they had, but they did seem to be happy, so I was very, very happy for them and especially for him, as I have known him forever.

At one point, the relationship started ending, and I heard she was bi or lesbian or something and she had moved her girlfriend into the house with our friend.

Now, this could be fun if they guy got into the sex, but I do not think so. Last I heard she has living with her lez girlfriend.

There is another older guy close to us who has many extremely faggy characteristics: walks like a fag, talks like a fag, etc. I will say: "That guy acts gay!!" and someone will chide me, responding that he's been married five times.

He has some kind of weird relationship with his wife now where he acts all feminine or like a little boy or something, and she thinks it's really cute, and I guess afterwards they fuck like crazy. Whatever. I am happy for both of them though, because she has made a lifetime project out of being miserable, and the guy is at least getting laid, and I cheer that on in all males.

There is another one living in San Francisco married to someone close to us. Everyone (all my close relatives) insists that he acts gay but I do not think he does at all. I just think he acts like me. Hmmmm. But they are very happy together also, so I am happy for them too.

I do not know about Arabs. I dated an Arab woman once, a woman from Egypt who was part Black. She was quite submissive, not bossy or aggressive or anything like that. She was Muslim, but that never got in the way of sex. In fact, she was so incredible that I think I want another one of those Arab women!

I do not think that Arab women are bossy or domineering in their relationships with men, though some are. Saddam's Hussein's Dad was supposedly horribly pussy-whipped by his Mom. I suspect it is probably more common that one might think.

The Philippines has a reputation for being a very sexist place where the males are very macho and do not really treat women all that well. Like Arabs, they frequently beat their women. However, a Filipina I know told me that there is a saying called, "under the saya", which means that a Filipino man is basically pussy-whipped. Saya is skirt.

So he's under his wife's skirt and she controls him. I asked if this was common, and she said it was very common. Keep in mind that in the Philippines, the Arab World and Asia, the woman rules the home. The man just needs to keep out of there.

I read an interview with an Egyptian man and his sons living at home in Cairo. The living room was decorated in frilly pink feminine stuff and the interviewer asked this macho Arab husband if he liked it this way, and he said basically, "Well, it's her house and she can decorate it any way she wants to." I assume the males have some control over the way they want their particular inhabited spaces decorated.

In these places, often the woman controls all the money for the couple, and makes all decisions about household expenditures. My Mom told me a story about a Japanese couple who came to look at a house a friend of hers was selling. The seller asked the Japanese man if he was interested, and he said something like, "That decision is left up to her."

In other words, this poor oppressed Japanese woman actually gets decide what house they buy! It seems to me that these women are not as oppressed as we think that they are, and many Japanese and Arab women resent Westerners and feminists sticking their noses in Japanese or Arab culture and telling them that they are oppressed.

You're often going to get people's patriotic backs up when you do that. Better to let some folks negotiate their way to liberation by themselves.

Jews and Arabs are both highly emotional probably because that is a "Mediterraneanism". In other words, most of the folks in that part of the world tend to act that way.

Arab guys put their arms around each other because this is common in many parts of the world. I had a friend from China who was always trying to put his arm around me in public.

I see Mexican Indian farm workers in town who often walk around with their arms around each other, especially when drunk. I think it is an "Indianism", as you don't see the other Mexicans doing that. This male buddiness does not seem associated with homosexuality in these Indians and it is not in the Chinese.

The Arab World is quite complex. In the Levant and Mesopotamia, homosexuality is despised and treated very harshly, not uncommonly with death. In the Gulf, especially in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, opportunistic or even preferential bisexuality is very common and in fact, the religious police often look the other way, as they are more concerned about men and women together! Stupid or what?!

In Egypt, there is fairly free and easy bisexuality among unmarried males, which they may continue after marriage. This is a lot more common in Nubia in Southern Egypt, where people are a lot Blacker, and there is actually a long tradition of that stuff.

In Cairo and in Morocco, many males will play the male role in homosexual sex with a "gay" male, who plays the female role. In many cultures, it's not considered gay to play the male role in gay sex. Most guys who do this are young unmarried males. This is what happens when you forbid young males with a stratospheric sex drive female outlets: they screw each other.

I don't find Arab males feminine at all. In fact, I find them ultra-macho.

The commenter asks about Jewish men and women. Well, I don't think Jewish guys have a reputation for being feminine so much as wimpy. Wimpy and oversexed at the same time! So that is not quite the same thing.

And there is the stereotype of the Jewish woman as neurotic, insecure (she hates her looks and longs to be a blond), controlling, addicted to cheap, tacky and gaudy clothing and jewelry, domineering, histrionic (drama queen), and in particular constantly badgering him to make more money.

There were horror stories by Jewish men about Jewish women dating all the way back 100 years ago to the early Jewish press on the East Coast of the US. In many ways, this stereotype has not changed. The Jewish guy is supposed to marry a Jewish girl, but he often resents their domineering nature, and the stereotype is he wants a blonde shiska. Jewish women, like Black women, complain that their men don't want them.

But most Jews do still marry their own. On the plus side, Jewish women can be very nurturing, and in my opinion, they can be real Stand By Your Man types. I had a Jewish girlfriend who everyone thought was a bitch. People thought she treated me like crap in public and would say, "I hate the way she talks to you!"

Well, in the relationship, she started out as a bitch sometimes, but I turned the tables on that pretty quickly!

I forgot her birthday, forgot our anniversary, got in a big fight with her on her birthday (The most evil, cruel, mean, horrible and insensitive thing I could have done!), calmly laughed in her face at her horrible insults, made her cry repeatedly, called her a bitch and a cunt and all sorts of other horrible names I have never called any woman, and this was one of the best relationships of my life.

She hated me at times, but she hated me for being a man. She called me cruel, mean, asshole, jerk, evil and wicked, and at the end she called me Hitler.

She would horribly insult me to my face. I would respond, "Shut the fuck up, you stupid fucking cunt. Shut up, you dumb bitch, etc., etc," real calm and assured-like.

After a few minutes of that, she would be blubbering like a little girl, "Oh, I adore you so much. Oh, I love you so much. I love you baby. Let's get married, etc. etc."

Oh man! Isn't love grand!

It's a horrible cliche, but a lot of these real bitchy types are really looking for a hard, masculine man to put them in their place and turn them into a feminine, blubbering little schoolgirl in love again. These bitches always go after wimpy guys, because they love to dominate them, or they think they love to dominate them, but that just doesn't seem to work, as it violates nature.

I don't like to be Mr. Advice Column on here, but at 50, it has occurred to me someone is going to wear the pants in a heterosexual relationship.

If you don't, she will.

If she suspects you have taken off the pants for a while, she will try to make a power grab to put the pants on herself. This must be stopped, often harshly, with profanities, harsh words, meanness, threats to leave, etc.

Usually she will back down completely and start bubbering and even whimpering apologetically and asking, "Are you mad? You're not mad, are you?" Assure you that you are not but issue an order that she is not to speak to you like that anymore, as you really, really hate it.

Women want to take control, but really a lot of times they hate it, because at the same time, I think that even masculinized Western women are disgusted by their vaginized metrosexual wormboy partners. You can wage cultural revolution and gender bend til the cows come home, but at the end of the day, I am convinced that you can't fool Mother Nature.

Of course we are products of our evolution. In many ways, we are also prisoners. < Note: Readers should carefully read the Commenting Rules before commenting to avoid having their comments edited or deleted and to avoid being banned from the site.